TERRY GROSS: In one of your books about acting, you talk about how you can't be inert on stage and you have to find out what it is that you actually do while you think you're doing nothing so that you could do that kind of thing on stage. Have you thought about that a lot, what it is you're doing when you're not really doing anything? 
Transcript
GROSS: In one of your books about acting, you talk about how you can't be inert on stage and you have to find out what it is that you actually do while you think you're doing nothing so that you could do that kind of thing on stage. Have you thought about that a lot, what it is you're doing when you're not really doing anything?
Ms. HAGEN: I'm going to interrupt you right now.
GROSS: Go ahead.
Ms. HAGEN: Because, again, everything you're discussing, you have read, it interests you. Are you an actor?
GROSS: No, I'm not.
Ms. HAGEN: Then it's none of your business. Now let me explain to you why. It may interest you; it may fascinate you. But if--you see, I feel that in the theater, everybody thinks they can act, everybody is fascinated about another human being on stage. If it's very convincing, they usually are sure that they could do it too, which is not true at all. The--if you would go to a violinist, you would not ask him about his bowing arm, about his elbow position, about his phrasing. And if he told you, you wouldn't know what he was talking about and you would be bored. If you went to a painting class or a watercolor class and you saw a teacher showing somebody how to put--how to wash a piece of paper that is going to have watercolor put on it in a minute, you'd say, `What do they teach here? How--they're watering down a page?' These are not the secrets but the craft itself. You wouldn't ask a scientist because you wouldn't know what he was talking about and you must--I feel an audience should learn to respect acting as a craft in the same way that you--if I do explain it, it might titillate you, you might understand a little of it. But the real impact or import of it for a fellow artist you would not get.
GROSS: Well, I want to...
Ms. HAGEN: And I don't say that to offend you; I just believe that with all my heart.
GROSS: I want to say I totally respect what you're saying, but I just beg to differ on a couple of things. For example, I would be asking a violinist about their phrasing and about the bend of their arm and all that.
Ms. HAGEN: Why?
GROSS: Well, because I think...
Ms. HAGEN: Do you play violin?
GROSS: No. But...
Ms. HAGEN: Then I think you're--you might ask him, but I think the violinist would look at you like you were nuts, and I think you are.
GROSS: No, see, what I have found as someone very interested in these things is that, for instance, if the violinist talks to me about his or her phrasing, it might help me hear music, hear things in music that I didn't hear before. I find that actually understanding more about craft is not only interesting in its own right but helps me perceive things that I didn't perceive before, which I like.
Ms. HAGEN: That's a very valid point and maybe I'm just in reaction to so many people who ask these questions and misun--the misunderstanding of the laymen in terms of an acting technique are so profound that I think I've pretty much had it in my life with that. I think that's probably part of my rebellion.
GROSS: I tell you another reason why I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about acting, though I respect you for not wanting to talk about this, is that I think really good actors have great insights into the body and how the body is used, how the body communicates, how the voice communicates, and also that great actors are great observers of other people. And they just have great insights into...
Ms. HAGEN: That's true. And I think...
GROSS: ...how people move and...
Ms. HAGEN: But, you see, the body again--which I'm gung ho about, talking about it all the time, and I believe that the body as an instrument of communication is all-powerful, and the biggest influence in my life for that training came from modern dance without being balletic or dancerish but it very strongly influenced me. However, very fine actors very often cannot define themselves what it is they are doing. Laurette Taylor could not tell you what she was doing. She had no--she was intuitive, instinctive, great performer.
GROSS: I've certainly noticed that as an interviewer that some of the really great artists I've interviewed...
Ms. HAGEN: Oh, my God. Some of the best ones are--can't...
GROSS: Right.
Ms. HAGEN: And I happen to have--because I've been teaching, and I've found in my own work that very often when I couldn't explain something it was because I didn't understand it myself. When I couldn't articulate it, it was because it was fuzzy in my own head. Now I do know that I can do it, nevertheless, but I may not be able to communicate it to someone else.
Ms. HAGEN: I'm going to interrupt you right now.
GROSS: Go ahead.
Ms. HAGEN: Because, again, everything you're discussing, you have read, it interests you. Are you an actor?
GROSS: No, I'm not.
Ms. HAGEN: Then it's none of your business. Now let me explain to you why. It may interest you; it may fascinate you. But if--you see, I feel that in the theater, everybody thinks they can act, everybody is fascinated about another human being on stage. If it's very convincing, they usually are sure that they could do it too, which is not true at all. The--if you would go to a violinist, you would not ask him about his bowing arm, about his elbow position, about his phrasing. And if he told you, you wouldn't know what he was talking about and you would be bored. If you went to a painting class or a watercolor class and you saw a teacher showing somebody how to put--how to wash a piece of paper that is going to have watercolor put on it in a minute, you'd say, `What do they teach here? How--they're watering down a page?' These are not the secrets but the craft itself. You wouldn't ask a scientist because you wouldn't know what he was talking about and you must--I feel an audience should learn to respect acting as a craft in the same way that you--if I do explain it, it might titillate you, you might understand a little of it. But the real impact or import of it for a fellow artist you would not get.
GROSS: Well, I want to...
Ms. HAGEN: And I don't say that to offend you; I just believe that with all my heart.
GROSS: I want to say I totally respect what you're saying, but I just beg to differ on a couple of things. For example, I would be asking a violinist about their phrasing and about the bend of their arm and all that.
Ms. HAGEN: Why?
GROSS: Well, because I think...
Ms. HAGEN: Do you play violin?
GROSS: No. But...
Ms. HAGEN: Then I think you're--you might ask him, but I think the violinist would look at you like you were nuts, and I think you are.
GROSS: No, see, what I have found as someone very interested in these things is that, for instance, if the violinist talks to me about his or her phrasing, it might help me hear music, hear things in music that I didn't hear before. I find that actually understanding more about craft is not only interesting in its own right but helps me perceive things that I didn't perceive before, which I like.
Ms. HAGEN: That's a very valid point and maybe I'm just in reaction to so many people who ask these questions and misun--the misunderstanding of the laymen in terms of an acting technique are so profound that I think I've pretty much had it in my life with that. I think that's probably part of my rebellion.
GROSS: I tell you another reason why I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about acting, though I respect you for not wanting to talk about this, is that I think really good actors have great insights into the body and how the body is used, how the body communicates, how the voice communicates, and also that great actors are great observers of other people. And they just have great insights into...
Ms. HAGEN: That's true. And I think...
GROSS: ...how people move and...
Ms. HAGEN: But, you see, the body again--which I'm gung ho about, talking about it all the time, and I believe that the body as an instrument of communication is all-powerful, and the biggest influence in my life for that training came from modern dance without being balletic or dancerish but it very strongly influenced me. However, very fine actors very often cannot define themselves what it is they are doing. Laurette Taylor could not tell you what she was doing. She had no--she was intuitive, instinctive, great performer.
GROSS: I've certainly noticed that as an interviewer that some of the really great artists I've interviewed...
Ms. HAGEN: Oh, my God. Some of the best ones are--can't...
GROSS: Right.
Ms. HAGEN: And I happen to have--because I've been teaching, and I've found in my own work that very often when I couldn't explain something it was because I didn't understand it myself. When I couldn't articulate it, it was because it was fuzzy in my own head. Now I do know that I can do it, nevertheless, but I may not be able to communicate it to someone else.
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